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LisaW
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 839
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: Mike Rogers' opening statement on Health Care reform |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc
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"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."
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JaniceC
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Edmonton,AB Canada
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LisaW
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: |
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http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596
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Overall Cancer Survival Rates. According to the survey of cancer survival rates in Europe and the United States, published recently in Lancet Oncology :
American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared to 56 percent for European women.
* American men have a five-year survival rate of 66 percent — compared to only 47 percent for European men.
* Among European countries, only Sweden has an overall survival rate for men of more than 60 percent.
* For women, only three European countries (Sweden, Belgium and Switzerland) have an overall survival rate of more than 60 percent.
These figures reflect the care available to all Americans, not just those with private health coverage. Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average: British men have a five-year survival rate of only 45 percent; women, only 53 percent.
Survival Rates for Specific Cancers. U.S. survival rates are higher than the average in Europe for 13 of 16 types of cancer reported in Lancet Oncology , confirming the results of previous studies. As Figure II shows:
* Of cancers that affect primarily men, the survival rate among Americans for bladder cancer is 15 percentage points higher than the European average; for prostate cancer, it is 28 percentage points higher. 2
* Of cancers that affect women only, the survival rate among Americans for uterine cancer is about 5 percentage points higher than the European average; for breast cancer, it is 14 percentage points higher.
* The United States has survival rates of 90 percent or higher for five cancers (skin melanoma, breast, prostate, thyroid and testicular), but there is only one cancer for which the European survival rate reaches 90 percent (testicular).
Furthermore, the Lancet Oncology study found that lung cancer patients in the United States have the best chance of surviving five years — about 16 percent — whereas patients in Great Britain have only an 8 percent chance, which is lower than the European average of 11 percent.
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http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649
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10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care
Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.
Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.
Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:
* Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
* Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
* More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
* Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).
Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."
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(above contain footnotes with documentation)
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/HCP/Details/health/mortality-cancer.aspx
Comes with a graph
I made one Google search ... how hard did you try?
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"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."
--- James Madison |
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Miranda731
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 2070
Location: Bradenton, FL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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The first article you referenced was from 2007, written by the drug companies' shill, and compares US to Europe as a whole. The second is more recent, but you left out the final line:
| Quote: | | Conclusion. Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries. |
And you see, it's those escalating costs and the uninsured which concern us at present.
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We are the ones we have been waiting for. - Hopi Elders
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift...rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant & has forgotten the gift."
~~ A Einstein |
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JaniceC
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Edmonton,AB Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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thank you Lisa but I had already found those reports - what I was looking for was the mention of the "trade off" Canadians made.
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RLD
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 3273
Location: My heart is in Africa
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LisaW wrote: | 10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care
Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.
Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.
Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:
* Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
* Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
* More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
* Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).
Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."
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(above contain footnotes with documentation)
[/quote]
YOu guys sure like to trot out the tired old garbage time and again.
The study above is the worst kind of misleading information, cherry picked and spun to make it completely dishonest.
I am surprised you would trot out this stuff yet again after it has been debunked so many times.
Rld
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LisaW
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:56 am Post subject: |
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So, when it disagrees with you, it's someone's shill. But when it agrees with your proposed premise it's valid.
Right.
Now, how about adjusting all those mortality rates to include infant deaths (not always included in European numbers).
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"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."
--- James Madison |
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Miranda731
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 2070
Location: Bradenton, FL
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| LisaW wrote: | So, when it disagrees with you, it's someone's shill. But when it agrees with your proposed premise it's valid.
Right.
Now, how about adjusting all those mortality rates to include infant deaths (not always included in European numbers). |
Are you saying that Betsy McCaughey is not the paid shill for the pharmaceutical industry? And how about looking at a recent chart of breast cancer mortality that shows UK barely higher than the US, Canada about the same as us, and countries like France with lower rates. The highest mortality rates seem to be in countries like Mexico, Rwanda, Malawsi...eithr places where they don't have sufficient medical care or where the rate of early examination is low (and where women say if they have mastectomies, their husbands will leave them!). It's hardly a simple problem. Some oountries seem to have a naturally low incidence of breast cancer, possibly due to to environmental factors and/or diet (since when natives of those countries move to countries with higher incidence, their rates seem to increase to match that of where they are living).
_________________
We are the ones we have been waiting for. - Hopi Elders
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift...rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant & has forgotten the gift."
~~ A Einstein |
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LisaW
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Miranda731 wrote: | | LisaW wrote: | So, when it disagrees with you, it's someone's shill. But when it agrees with your proposed premise it's valid.
Right.
Now, how about adjusting all those mortality rates to include infant deaths (not always included in European numbers). |
Are you saying that Betsy McCaughey is not the paid shill for the pharmaceutical industry?
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I see where she was against Clinton's health care plan. I see where she's a conservative (which of course, means she's stupid). I see where she is with the Hudson Institute. I see where she's on the board of a medical product company. Do you have some proof she's a "paid shill for the pharmaceutical industry?" Because, as usual, you've made some statement as if it were fact and given no proof. And the article was based on a Lancet Oncology article comparing estimated five-year relative survival rates for sixteen types of cancer in parts of Europe and the United States.
| Miranda731 wrote: |
And how about looking at a recent chart of breast cancer mortality that shows UK barely higher than the US, Canada about the same as us, and countries like France with lower rates. The highest mortality rates seem to be in countries like Mexico, Rwanda, Malawsi...eithr places where they don't have sufficient medical care or where the rate of early examination is low (and where women say if they have mastectomies, their husbands will leave them!). It's hardly a simple problem. Some oountries seem to have a naturally low incidence of breast cancer, possibly due to to environmental factors and/or diet (since when natives of those countries move to countries with higher incidence, their rates seem to increase to match that of where they are living). |
And which graph would that be? Odd. I don't see a cite. Care to let us all see? The graph I showed doesn't put the US as number 1 in cancer survival but it sure shows the US ahead of Canada and the UK and that was my point.
_________________
"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."
--- James Madison |
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Miranda731
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 2070
Location: Bradenton, FL
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Granted, these figures are from 1999, but they show a good chart, and I haven't had the time to search for newer info:
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/49/3/138.pdf
_________________
We are the ones we have been waiting for. - Hopi Elders
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift...rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant & has forgotten the gift."
~~ A Einstein |
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michelle2
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 2227
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| LisaW wrote: | | Miranda731 wrote: | ...Are you saying that Betsy McCaughey is not the paid shill for the pharmaceutical industry?
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... see where she's on the board of a medical product company. Do you have some proof she's a "paid shill for the pharmaceutical industry?" ... |
See your immediately preceeding sentence. |
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